Stacy Mayer: Hello, everyone, welcome to another episode of Maximize Your Career. I'm your host, Stacy Mayer, and super excited to be here with you guys again this week as I have a very special guest with me. 

As many of you know, I just sent the final manuscript of my book off to the publisher, and it's set to come out later this year. And as much fun as it is to write a book, one of the other side benefits of writing a book is I'm starting to get to know other first-time authors and the incredible work that they're putting out into the world. So, you're going to see many more of those authors on this podcast in the upcoming months.

And this first author who I have with you - her name is Melody Wilding. And she wrote an incredible book called Trust Yourself. And we're going to be going into all of the tips in this book in today's podcast episode. And more importantly, I hope that at the end of today, you can actually start to trust yourself more. Because as we all know, when we trust ourselves, we can put ourselves out there in a bigger, bolder way; and other people can actually recognize us for that. So let me give a more formal introduction for Melody, and then we will just dive right in. 

So, Melody Wilding is an executive coach, human behavior expert and author of Trust Yourself - Stop Overthinking and Channel Your Emotions for Success at Work. Yes please. That is not in her bio. That's just my add on. She has coached hundreds of private clients from CEOs and Fortune 500 executives to leaders from the U.S. Department of Education, the Federal Reserve, and the United Nations. She teaches graduate level human behavior and psychology at the Silbermann School of Social Work at Hunter College in New York City. Thank you, Melody. Thank you so much for being here with me today. 

Melody Wilding: I am so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. 

Stacy Mayer: That's awesome. It's really, really great. Melody and I connected on LinkedIn of all places. And really just - I was just like, 'oh, not only do I want to share your work with as many people as possible, but I kind of just want to be friends with you'. She's super cool. You'll get to see her if you watch some of the videos from our podcast today. I hope she says yes. 

Melody Wilding: Oh, yeah. I'm very excited to be here. And, you know, I first heard about you in a joint networking group that we are both a part of; and you posted in there, I believe, about your podcast. And I was like, 'I need to start listening to this ASAP'. And I have just dove into your work, followed you on LinkedIn. And I love the advice you put out there, just the way you give people confidence to be who they are and really own their career path and be in control of it. And I'm just honored to be here. 

Stacy Mayer: Kindred spirits. Thank you so much, Melody. So why don't we just get started with some of your secrets to success? And then hopefully that will lead us into what you teach inside the book. What do you feel like is the biggest thing that you had to own in order to be successful in your own career? 

Melody Wilding: For me - and I talk about this a bit in the book - it's really central to what the book is about. But for me, owning my sensitivity has been a huge part of my career success. It was always something that I disowned about myself or that I felt self-conscious of, that I took things so personally, wore my heart on my sleeve. And of course, was given some of that feedback sometimes throughout my career that I needed to grow a thicker skin. And, you know, so much of the book is about - and definitely in the first story I talk a bit about - how actively not paying attention to my sensitivity. It ran amok with me to a point where my level of insecurity, my doubts, my lack of boundaries really led me to a place where I was really severely burned out and a shell of who I was. And luckily, I have a background as a therapist, so I had all the tools within myself to turn things around. But it wasn't until I started embracing that. My sensitivity isn't something that makes me weak or weird. It's actually a central part of who I am. It's central to my empathy, my ability to see nuance and navigate conflict, to synthesize information and spot gaps that other people miss. And I never regarded sensitivity in that sense. But it's what has made me so successful in being a coach and a guide and educator for other people. And of course, I see my clients all the time how their sensitivity helps them in their careers. 

Stacy Mayer: You use the term 'sensitive strivers', and it's such a brilliant description of what you're talking about. Can you define with us what a sensitive striver is? 

Melody Wilding: A sensitive striver is someone who is both high achieving and highly sensitive. So, these are people who put a lot of pressure on themselves to succeed. They are always trying to do more and be better, not necessarily because they want to climb the ladder. Of course, they want to be successful. But it's really about wanting to make an impact and a contribution. And then they are highly sensitive, meaning they think and feel everything more deeply. So, they are much deeper processors on every level. They are more attuned to their environment, their own emotions, and the emotions of other people. So those two attributes, we typically don't think of sensitivity and ambition going together. But when they do come together, it can be a really powerful combination. Or in some cases, if it's not managed correctly and you don't have the tools to navigate both of those qualities, can lead to some downsides. 

Stacy Mayer: Yeah, I could totally see this becoming a problem, because your sensitivity, which is like you're identifying that as an emotional state. Like this, these emotions kind of get the best of you. And so, then what you're going to do is you're going to make choices to not go towards that high achieving goal. So, you're going to, and I come across this all the time with my work with women; they're like, 'well, you know, it's not really about the promotion'. I'm like, 'well, you know, it can be both'.  And I think that we sort of let our emotions override us and then therefore we make decisions based on those. And then we don't get to have the success that we wish we could have in our lives. 

Melody Wilding: Exactly. Exactly. And I see this all the time with my clients who will hold back from going for a promotion or a bigger opportunity because they're afraid they can't handle it. Or they'll say, 'you know, I have such a thin skin for feedback. What am I going to do when I'm in a room with those execs and they're tearing me down? How am I? I can't handle it. I can't respond to that.' So, they will stay small. Intentionally hold themselves back when in reality they have so much to offer because their brains work in a really unique, inventive way. 

Stacy Mayer: That's so awesome. So, you self-identify as a sensitive striver, correct? 

Melody Wilding: I do. I do. 

Stacy Mayer: So, you know firsthand what this is like. And I was actually really surprised that you live in New York, and I know you used to live in Manhattan. Now you're basically across the bridge from New York City. So, to further illustrate this point of being a sensitive striver and living in what I consider to be one of the most not, you know, for sensitive people, I could say that it would be a little bit much to live in New York. So how did you actually navigate those challenges for yourself? 

Melody Wilding: New York can definitely be quite overstimulating and overwhelming at times, for sure. You know, I think a part - a big part - of being a sensitive striver is knowing yourself. And being in New York, you know, I had to take care of myself and be aware of my energy and really practicing good self-care. But what's really interesting about New York in particular is that, yes, it is very - it's a lot - it is very overwhelming. But I think for someone who is sensitive, it's actually very beautiful at the same time. Because what I loved about New York was that you could just stand on the street and you could look in front of you and see so many different scenes happening in front of you, interactions between people and get lost in different conversations or just looking at the buildings or walking through the park. And there is just such unique and special beauty to it. And so, I think there actually is a lot for the sensitive soul to appreciate in New York. And it's very easy to be alone. So, if you want to be in New York and not be bothered, it's very easy to make yourself invisible. So, I did that often. But, you know, eventually I did a big part of it. Right now, I live in Jersey City, New Jersey, which is a little bit outside of Manhattan. But eventually it did become a little too much on me. The noises late at night, the bright lights in my window at all times - and I had to make a decision for my long-term well-being. I made the decision to leave New York. But I miss it. I think it's the natural tension that exists, and being a sensitive striver is you do have this soft side, but you do have this side that always wants more and likes the excitement and likes the hustle and the grind and the push that New York City offers, so there is just kind of this natural tension that exists. 

Stacy Mayer: This is such a great, really eye-opening definition. This idea of being a sensitive striver and when I think about the work that I do is often about this and that we can have both. Because that is how we're going to bring more diversity to the leadership table. That is how - when we have that - and we're not looking to be like everybody else. But I'd like to segue a little bit into this idea of trusting ourselves. And so, what I'm starting to notice through this definition of sensitive striver, it's like a huge, huge benefit. And so, when you can start to believe that for yourself and just know that you are such an asset because of your unique personality. And then you're going to be able to bring that voice further to the table. So how does, you know, really understanding your sensitive striver-ness allow you to begin to trust yourself more? 

Melody Wilding: You know, I think it really comes down to the things you believe to be true about yourself, dictate your actions. And I know you teach this in a lot of your coaching. But if you believe that something about you is fundamentally flawed or not enough or inadequate or different in a bad way, then you are going to take actions that follow that. You're going to hold your ideas back. You're going to qualify them in meetings and say, 'you know, I don't know if this is such a good idea, but I just thought maybe we could kind of try' and you're going to undermine yourself. And what I see most often is people self-sabotage. And so really trusting yourself is about - fundamentally what I teach in the book is - changing and transforming your confidence to believe that you do have something of value to offer. And because you are someone who is more sensitive, I see this with clients all the time, that they are two, three steps ahead of the rest of the group, because they're able to see the bigger picture. They're able to put things together and anticipate eventualities, yet they will not raise their hand in a meeting to offer an idea because they'll say, 'well, no one else has shared this yet. So, it might...it must not be a good idea', when in actuality they're innovating, they're ahead of the curve. And then they beat themselves up because, a half hour later, someone says what you were going to say and then you beat yourself up over that. So, trusting yourself is really about being the first one to raise your hand and offer those ideas even when you don't feel one hundred percent ready. 

Stacy Mayer: Yeah, I spoke to you a little bit about this before we hit record today. But I actually have a daily belief practice where I actually check in with myself and the words that I want to share with myself for the day, and the power that I want to show up with that day. And one of the lines that I've been using for every morning for like a couple of months is 'I trust myself' and I actually use that throughout the day where if I start to notice that I'm feeling a little anxious, I just quite simply tell myself 'I trust myself'. And that's also started to feed into some of my coaching. I will tell them, 'What kind of decision would you make right now if you trusted yourself?' So, like talking about your actions that you take as a byproduct of not trusting yourself. They're very, very, very different. And so just that simple act of telling myself,' I trust myself, I trust myself', and it's not even like it sounds kind of like 'darn it, I'm good, you know, people like me' or whatever. 

Melody Wilding: Yes, I'm smart. I'm funny. 

Stacy Mayer: But what's different about this idea of 'trust yourself' is like it's actually an action in and of itself. It's like the words are an action. It's not just a mantra. Because when I tell myself 'I trust myself’, it’s like it's actually an action.  Could you tell us some tips or something? How else can we all start to trust ourselves a little bit more? 

Melody Wilding: Yes. So, one of my favorite small little hacks from the book is the idea of naming your inner critic. So, we all have that sort of anti-voice of trusting yourself, the voice that says, 'you're not good enough, you're not smart enough, you have nothing of value to share'. Whatever it says to you. And give that voice a name, some sort of moniker so you can identify it and separate it from yourself. And in psychology, this is called psychological distancing. And when we psychologically distance from something, we're able to be less emotional about it. We're able to be less affected by it and to see it with a cooler head. So rather than being ordered around by that inner critic and your insecurities, you're able to put it in front of you and act from a more measured place; and access what you were referring to as your intuition. That deeper knowing and wisdom that you have instead of just being - letting your doubts run the show.

 Stacy Mayer: So, what's your name? I have to ask or, you know, if you don't mind sharing, you know, you could share something else. So, you're actually saying this is what you call your inner critic. That's the name for yours? Tell us more - I'm so curious.

Melody Wilding: I call mine Bozo. I've had clients call theirs 'the little monster', 'worrywart', 'Cruella de Ville'. I had one client who once called his, 'Darth Vader' and got a Darth Vader action figure that sat on his desk. And, you know, every time his inner critic would come up, it was like, 'not today'. 

Stacy Mayer: Not today Darth. 

Melody Wilding: Don't have time for this today. And it also changed his relationship with that voice to really put it in perspective and not take it so seriously, and to focus on actually what's the more important matter at hand. It's not all of this junk in my head. It's really the work that I have in front of me. That's the more important, meaningful decision and work I need to do. 

Stacy Mayer: Yeah, because this is the whole challenge that people have with emotions - is that emotions take up days and days and hours and hours. One of the things that I teach my clients is how to get out of the weeds. And if we can literally change our thinking and stop worrying so much, we can actually create more time in our day. And that's sort of the subtitle of your book, this idea of 'stop overthinking and channel your emotions for success at work'. Let's transition a little bit into this emotional state and how we start to use this concept of trusting ourselves to channel our emotions in a different way so that, like you said, 'Bozo can sit over there and I can get back to work'. 

Melody Wilding: Well, I can give you a few examples, because when we think about it, I like to reframe our emotions from a nuisance to something that's actually very powerful signal and data. Because for most of us, we think of emotions as something that we just have to deal with that gets in our way, when in actuality they're very important information that can guide our actions in a very wise way going forward. So, for example, a very telling emotion is jealousy or envy. If there is a colleague who you feel envious of, or you just get that, I don't know, frustration when you see them, that jealous feeling. Well, there may be something that that colleague has that is under-recognized or underdeveloped within yourself. So, I often see this with clients who are very jealous of their more gregarious, outgoing colleagues who are comfortable speaking in front of a room, holding the floor. And they will just get very jealous, like 'I wish I could be like that person'. And instead of getting stuck in that space, we mine it for information, which is 'Okay, this is a signal that you want to be more charismatic and confident. You want to be able to be more comfortable using your voice'. And so that is what we work on. We work on what is within their control and channel that to their benefit. So that's one example. I'll pause there for a second. 

Stacy Mayer: I just got like 'oh, my gosh, this is so good', because I subconsciously did this with the whole trust yourself thing, because I wish I was a person who trusted myself all the time.  Sometimes I get super jealous, like you'll see somebody on social media or another coach or somebody and you're like, 'oh, they just seem so confident and just they trust themselves'. And I had to realize that this was something I could cultivate - That I could start to learn and literally trust that I could trust myself and start to do that. And I could see this with corporate women as well. You see some women get ahead and you start to say, 'oh, that's just not me. It's just outside of me, I'm not like that', or 'I don't trust myself enough' or whatever that voice is - that thing that you just don't feel like you already have and finding a way to see that within yourself. 

Melody Wilding: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know that that reminds me of another aspect of sensitivity that I wanted to reframe, because I think it's very relevant to your audience, which is that I hear all the time from sensitive strivers who tell me, ‘You know, I don't really want a promotion. I don't want to be in the executive level because I don't want to deal with the politics. I'm just not that type of person. I don't like dealing with the politics.' And I stop them right there. Because being someone who is sensitive means that you are really adept at navigating other people's emotions and sensing, anticipating other people's needs. And workplace politics is largely about building relationships and coalitions and alliances and really understanding what motivates people and how to persuade them. And who better to do that than someone who can do it very authentically and genuinely like someone who is a sensitive striver. So, I just wanted to offer that because this emotionality, yes, it allows you to feel deeply, but it also allows you to access that in other people in a way that can really advance your career. 

Stacy Mayer: Amazing. And we need those people at the leadership table. Come on people - listen to us today and get yourself into positions of influence, please. I love it. I love it so much. 

Melody Wilding: One more example of how you can use your emotions as data that I wanted to offer - is the emotion of resentment. Resentment is a very powerful signal that you have let someone cross your boundaries. You have let a situation go on too long. You volunteered more help than you feel comfortable with, and you feel taken advantage of or not appreciated enough. And so, resentment often comes about, you know, sensitive strivers. And I know there are many of them in your audience, people who will pigeon on an initiative and are told that, 'oh, it's just going to be a month' and all of a sudden, it's three, six months and you're still doing this work for someone else. And you start to feel resentful every time you have to attend that meeting or see an email about it hit your inbox. And that's a sign that you need to do something about it. You need to set some sort of limits, have a conversation. But that's another way to use, sort of, that emotion rather than just stewing in it, use it as a catalyst for productive action. 

Stacy Mayer: Yeah. Just like trust yourself. Trust yourself that the resentment is there for a reason. And then figure out what boundary you need to take. I love that. That is so good. Do you have any success stories from any of your clients that you'd be willing to share? People who have really started to embrace this idea of trusting themselves, and then were actually able to catapult them - their career. 

Melody Wilding: Of course, I have one client in particular who comes to mind, and this individual, they were identified as a high performer. And when they came to me, they were in a senior manager position at a scientific company. And the company was growing very quickly, except he was really held back by a lot of his own tendencies. This individual in particular was a bit of a people-pleaser and really wanted to keep the team happy. And so, as a result of that, wasn't the best at delegating or assigning work to other people, would keep a lot of things for themselves, would not address conflicts on the team because they didn't want to hurt people's feelings or upset them, for example. And through working together, we undid a lot of these bad habits and started to help them realize those mindset shifts around, especially with feedback, that, that is actually a gift that you're giving to other people to provide clarity and expectations up front and helping them be successful. And with delegation really giving other people to the opportunity to step up and be empowered. And so through working together, this individual actually in our first year of working together, received two promotions. And yes, in our second year of working together, then received a triple bonus, which was very exciting for that - was in the range of six figures - just their bonus. Yes. And now they are leading a team across the world that is quadruple the size of what they were before, and more balanced most of all; internally realizing that being a sensitive striver has been exactly the thing that has set them up for success, because they are the boss that everyone wants to work for and they are the executive now that all of the other executives turn to for advice, for guidance. They are the trusted confidant. 

Stacy Mayer: Yes. Oh, that's so great. Melody, thank you. Thank you for that. That's amazing. So, this actually makes me think of a point; I feel like there's a little bit of a gender bias here in our conversation thus far. You were talking about this man who was a sensitive striver. And so, can we talk a little bit about maybe the definitions like - I think you mentioned this in the book - like extroverts are also sensitive strivers, like 'what'? So just help us see all the different ways that we could be a sensitive striver, not just the typical what we would initially think. 

Melody Wilding: Of course. So, a couple of stats I'll throw at you. So, first is that about 15 to 20 percent of the population is sensitive. And this is a very real thing. It is a biological trait. It connects back to the way the brain processes certain neurochemicals, things like dopamine, norepinephrine for my neuroscience geeks out there. And they've connected it back to about 10 different gene variants that people who are highly sensitive have. So, this is a very real biological trait that a certain percentage of the population has. Now, within that, about 70 percent of people who are highly sensitive are also introverted, which you can see many ways - those two attributes go hand-in-hand. But that does mean about 30 percent are extroverted. So, I have tons of clients who love leading teams, who love collaboration and brainstorming because they get energy by being around people. That's where that comes from. And then, I often get asked about the gender split, as you were talking about. And what's really interesting here, I came into this work thinking, 'oh, by far, women are more sensitive - by far'. And the research says that's not exactly true. So, what we know from the stats is that it's about 50/50 - between men who are sensitive and women who are sensitive. And actually, at birth, newborn boys are more highly sensitive, which they measure as being, you know, startled more easily than young girls. Where things start to differ is through socialization. 

Stacy Mayer: Yes. And I was thinking about corporate America, too. It's like we have to put on - oh, this interview is so great. Thank you - keep going. 

Melody Wilding: Exactly. Exactly right. So, women and I'm sure, Stacey, you know this very well. And I want to start from when you're a young girl. When you're a young girl, you are told 'stay in line, get good grades, be conscientious, be a good girl. Don't step out of line. Don't upset people.' So as a young woman, you equate success and getting love and likability with 'I need to make other people happy'. So, we condition young girls to be people-pleasers, but also perfectionists; that young boys, we socialize more to be able to explore and make mistakes. You know, take risks. And we don't do that for young girls. And so, when I was researching the book, I found a really startling statistic that about three quarters, I believe, of young of teen girls by their adolescence, say that they cannot fail. They are not allowed to fail - which is very scary. And that only continues as we get into the workplace, where, of course, women have to walk a very fine line between being assertive but not too aggressive and not showing our emotions, because then you're labeled hysterical; or something... 

Stacy Mayer: Quite simply, too emotional. Yes, exactly. And then we label ourselves that way. It's a vicious cycle. 

Melody Wilding: Exactly. And then for men on the other side, too many of the sensitive men I work with face toxic masculinity, that 'it's not okay as a man to show your emotions, you have to be tough and strong'. And so, I think there's a balance here, right? It's like you were saying, it's both and not - not either or. 

Stacy Mayer: Oh, I love it. That's so, so good. That's just such a great reminder. And what you were talking about, this is just a little bit of a segue. I don't know if you guys have heard about Story Worth, which is an online thing. I think I got a Facebook ad for this. And this is just totally random, by the way. So, you can pause the recording here if you are bored by my story. But just kidding. Anyway, so what they do is they send you a question a week and then you answer it, and you create a book. So, it's really great for grandparents, it could be great for you as well. But you could write your own book just like me and you, Melody. We could write our own book just by answering a question a week. So, I purchased this for my mom, and I purchased this for my dad. And they're divorced. So totally separate. They're not communicating about this. And I notice that all of the questions are completely gender biased. Now, you can pick your own questions. But this actually came out because I was like my dad's questions were like, 'did you ever win an award?' That's one of the questions. Did you win an award? And I actually said this in a conversation with my mom. I was like, 'yeah, you know, he answered this question, did you win an award?' She says, 'I haven't gotten that question'. And the funny thing was, my dad was like, 'no, I haven't'. And my mom was like, 'I could write all day about all the awards I won'.  I think these questions are gender biased. And even when we're trying to connect with this truth - That's what the whole point of this book - their campaign is to connect with your truth. We're not making up these stories to put on ‘an air’.  Yet, even then, the questions can be focused towards whatever gender. So that my mom didn't win any trophies, like, 'heck, yeah, she did.' So, I sent her that question. I said, 'answer it. Write five pages. I want to hear all about it'.  So, do you have any final words of wisdom for somebody who's looking to advance their career into executive leadership? Anything that you haven't shared with us that you could share today? 

Melody Wilding: Yes, you know, my favorite chapter in the book is the one on assertive communication. And in there, I have what I call throughout the book 'Speak Up Shortcuts', and they're short actionable tips. And one of those sections is on how to humble brag in the workplace. And so, I want to leave your listeners with some of those tips. Which is first, send a roundup of your or your team's successes monthly or quarterly to senior or executive leadership. And this should detail any sort of milestones, quantifiable achievements, testimonials or praise you've received from clients and customers. And you can position it as an update, but it's a really great and organic way to get some of your achievements more visible. Second is to add an accomplishments section to your one on one with your manager. You need to be taking control of your one-on-one agendas, not leaving it up to your manager. And so having that accomplishment section means your manager is fully abreast of everything you're working on and that you're achieving; so, they could go be your best advocate in the rooms they are in and you're not yet. And the last - I would say - is to create a brain trust. And I know you help people do that in your Executive Ahead of Time program, that they get a brain trust of folks they can access. But having a mentor - or even I have many times clients who will even have a meeting or two with a senior leader. Make sure you are following through on their advice and following up with them to let them know how you implemented it and what the outcome was -especially if it was positive. Because what people love more than anything is to hear that they were helpful and that it shows you are proactive, you take initiative, and you follow through. 

Stacy Mayer: Oh, my goodness, 100 percent. One of the things that I also heard is - you gave - extremely practical ways to speak about your achievements. And one of the challenges that my clients face in speaking about their achievements is, it's very emotional for them. And so, it brings up - actually brings up - a little anxiety to even think about doing the talking about it. And what you've done is you've created this formula where it's just part of the conversation, 'Oh, now it's time to talk about our achievements for the week'. And so, it's channeling your emotions. Brilliant. 

Melody Wilding: Un-stigmatize it. Make it unemotional. Becomes so much easier. 

Stacy Mayer: And then you just continue to do it. Oh, I love it so much. So, Melody, how can we find you? Tell us a little bit more about - I'll link to your book, Trust Yourself - so definitely purchase that; I will link to that in the show notes. But tell us more ways that we can connect with you to learn more. 

Melody Wilding: Thank you so much. So, yes, you can find the book wherever books are sold; and you can find me at my website, MelodeeWilding.com. And on there, we also have a quiz to figure out, as a sensitive striver, what are the key qualities you need to work on first? What is most causing for you - imposter syndrome and overwhelm. So, make sure to check out that quiz as well. 

Stacy Mayer: I'm going to go take that quiz, too. That is so great. Melody, our friendship has begun forevermore. I'm so, so, so excited to have you here. Thank you for sharing all of your wisdom. I so appreciate it. And I know everybody listening does as well.

Melody Wilding: Oh, thank you for having me.