Stacy: Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Maximize Your Career. I'm your host, Stacy Mayer, and really excited to be here with you this week because I have brought on three of quite probably the most important guests I've ever had on this podcast. And I say that because not only because each of the women that I'm having on in today's conversation is absolutely phenomenal leaders, but they have all been through it with me, some of them a couple of years, and some of them the last six months. But what I mean by that is they're challenging themselves to grow as a leader, to really claim that voice at the table, to step up, to ask for more, to get in a role that is really congruent with their corporate badassness. And in today's conversation we're going to be unpacking that little bit, learning from each of them as leaders. And I am just so excited to have them here and to be representing what is possible when you start doing the work that we're doing inside of Executive Ahead of Time and The Leadership Table. Welcome, everyone. I'm so glad to have you here.

Stacy: So why don't we start by having each of you introduce yourself and perhaps answering the question, what is your secret to success? Andrea, why don't we start with you?

Andrea: Sure. So my name is Andrea Bumstead and I am a Vice President of Customer Success at Revenue.io. So I'm an expert in customer success strategies for SAS tech companies. And I'm really known for turning good customers into raving fans, launching collaborative customer initiatives and developing really strong teams with solid execution. So I would say my secret to success really is being a catalyst for others. So I'm known for inspiring and motivating others towards shared goals.

Stacy: Wonderful. I love that and very well articulated. I will say it's so good to hear that. And in terms of inspiring others and motivating others towards shared goals, what does that look like in practicality?

Andrea: I do a lot of coaching in my role. In all of my leadership roles, but particularly now as the Vice President of Customer Success are really double down on coaching my own team, but also coaching others in the industry overall. So it's just coaching and investing in others, developing them. I'm known as a visionary leader, so I tend to really catalyze people towards a shared vision.

Stacy: This also reminds me of how you showed up when you first joined Executive Ahead of Time and it was I'm ready to learn, right? So I think you're a product of your product, which is basically you show up to get coached, you show up to grow, you show up to do the work and then you're able to do that for other people. I love that. 

Andrea: Absolutely. I bring a growth mindset to everything I do.

Stacy: I love it. It's important. It doesn't go without saying. It's so good. Alright, Thelma.

Thelma: Hi, Thelma Haddock. I'm a Senior Director of Change Management at my company. I've been there nearly 19 years. Previous to that, my background was in the same company, was in operations, and prior to that in sales. So I've been here for a while and I've got an opportunity to really just get to know a lot of the people within my company. And I guess I would say as far as my secrets to success, I would say my openness to hear and put into action other people's ideas. I don't always have to be the one with the great idea, but I am seen as a thoughtful leader and someone who is a catalyst for change.

Stacy: Absolutely. Oh, that's so good. And piggybacking off of what Andrea said, one thing that I really admire about is you really bring your leadership into the work that we're doing in Executive Ahead of Time, not just as a student, but as a supporter of the other women in the group. You're such a champion for them and the work that we're doing and encouraging everybody and I have no doubt that that doesn't display itself at your job as well. I'm pretty sure that's who you are. I love that. It's so good. Alright, Kristi.

Kristi: Hi. I'm Kristi Sarno. I'm Vice President of Business Development and Corporate Strategy at Homology Medicines. I've been there about a year and a half and Vice President for about six months. Prior to that, I have spent a lot of time, all in biotech, at various roles in business development. And I would say my secret to success is perseverance, because I have a job that's relatively undefined based on the company that you're in and the type of deals that you're looking to do or the company needs. And I have just been really dedicated to getting into this role and doing the type of work that I'm doing now. And there definitely have been times where I've taken a role and it hasn't turned out the way that I expected it to and not not getting too bummed out and just trying to find the next thing that fits well and not taking it too personally has been an area of growth for me. But I think it's also based on my ability to just keep going and keep trying another tactic and another role or another way of doing my job along the way.

Stacy: So good. Yes, yes, yes. Perseverance with Kristi Sarno. I love it. Kristi, let's continue the conversation with you. How would you actually use that to transition and talk a little bit more about your leadership style? This is something that obviously I teach inside of Executive Ahead of Time. And on the surface, we can be, I'm a humble leader, I'm a collaborative leader. But I think that when when that's only just the beginning. And so really understanding not only what makes us an exceptional leader, but how we're going to communicate that to other people at our organization so that people call us that, so that we're known for something. That's all the work that I like to do on Leadership Style so that it becomes this living, breathing thing. So I'd love to hear from each of you about how you would describe that.

Kristi: I would describe my leadership style as along the lines of having a lot of empathy and compassion for others. And this has been an interesting trajectory in that when you're negotiating against the other side, that those are also qualities that you can bring to your negotiating style. And so everybody has a different negotiating style. Everybody has a different leadership style. But as I've evolved, that's been my tactic, both in negotiating and in my leadership style, just to try to understand what is surrounding the other party, what are the issues that affect them? What is their viewpoint? As much as I can understand it, either through research or by talking to them. And I think that really helps when you're working with other people within your organization as well, because if you can understand what they're trying to learn or what they're trying to accomplish, it helps you understand how to work with them to accomplish that goal together. I think people see me that way. Approachable is another word that I would definitely give to myself and then openness to other people's way of working. And now that hasn't always been the case. This is something that I've worked hard on. It's a lot harder than it sounds to understand other people's viewpoints, as we all know from the current political environment. But it's something that you really need to practice, and I feel like that's what I bring to the table in my environment currently.

Stacy: I love that. It's like bringing the humanity back to the deals, right? They're not just deals. They're people that we're communicating with. So you said you've practiced it. Do you have any tips or anything that you can share from a practical standpoint what you do?

Kristi: Some of them are seemingly basic as in not speaking right away.  When somebody says something, you have an immediate reaction. Maybe just briefly pause and think, do I either A) do I need to respond right now or B) how am I going to respond? Another tactic that I think I learned from you, Stacy, is to think, do I need to have my viewpoint expressed in this meeting or will this just be a meeting where I'm information gathering and then in a another one express my viewpoint? That was a big one for me. I think also just the interactions that you have outside of meetings. Getting to know people. I spent a lot of time doing this as I entered into this role of homology, just having one on ones with most of the people that I'm working with and even a couple of people I thought I might end up working with and just taking that short amount of time just to chat. Hear what they're working on is sometimes a way to have that conversation. Just let them talk and tell you about their world. And then as you continue to do that, you hear more and more about their personal life, their work style, what they're interested in at work, and all of that stuff can have an effect on how projects turn out. Especially what people are interested in. I like to ask people that because if it's part of their job and not the favorite part of their job, then you kind of have a sense of how much engagement they're going to have. That gives you some clue. And then the way as a leader for you to kind of skew the work to someone else who likes that part of the job for example.

Stacy: Oh, my gosh. So good. Thank you. Andrea, tell us more about your leadership style.

Andrea: I mentioned I'm a visionary leader and my style really is. I don't know if it's a style as much as a strength. My strength is execution and operations. And because I'm so strong on the execution side, I've really learned to balance that with a human centered approach. Kristi, I love your callout about empathy. It's so important. And so for me as a leader, because execution is so strong for me, I've really had to learn to be comfortable with vulnerability and with the potential for failure. So I used to be as strong executor that just executed and had a lot of armor sort of associated with that. And I've really learned to take my armor off in the past couple of years and and execute through other people and with a more human centered approach, if you will.

Stacy: It's so important. And I can see what you mean when you are an executor. It kind of sounds like a joke sometimes, but it's really true. A lot of times we are smarter than the rest of the people in the room. And I laugh because it's like, oh, well, you know, and so we have these really great ideas and we can see them and we can totally execute on them, quite frankly.  Yes, sure, I could do all of that. And we could also do it together. We could also lift each other up. We could also come to a better outcome if I let down that armor, if I bring people along, if I have this human centric approach. This is what we need more of in the corporate world anyway. And I so appreciate that. That's great. Awesome. Thelma, tell us about your leadership style.

Thelma: You know, I wouldn't necessarily say it's my leadership style. It's just me overall. I'm my authentic self in every situation. And most of all, when I think about it, as Kristi and Andrea said, I'm an empathetic leader, so I care. I care about what's going on with someone outside of the work place that could be affecting what's going on with them at work. So ultimately, I care about the people I work with and everything that they could be going through. Because when you're trying to work with people and collaborate and sometimes there may be those difficult conversations, you need to understand their why. And because sometimes people set up a meeting, you'll be like, the answer is no. There's no way I can do that. Not doing it. But once you hear their why, I can normally find a way to get to yes. And it may not be that I do it or my team does it, but I can find someone else who is the right person. And so I would say something that I'm known for is being a connector, being someone that can find solutions and connect the dots and keep things moving in the right direction.

Stacy: I see this for you so much and you have such an incredible way of breaking barriers. As in there are none. One of the strengths that I admire in you is that you don't see hierarchy. As in it's like everybody is a human being. I'm going to pick up the phone and I'm going to talk to you. It doesn't matter if you work on the front line or what you do, what your title is. We're all people here and I think that's really important. Do you feel like you always had that quality? Is that like a core value or is it something that you've adapted?

Thelma: I would say that is a core value and that comes from my father because he was very big on business ethics and treating people as human beings. Not as you work for me or like there's this hierarchy. And that's why it doesn't matter if it's someone on the front line, the custodian, someone doing the lawn, or if it's the CEO or the CFO, you're going to get the same person with me.

Stacy: I would go to bat for that. I would say that is definitely the case. And this is making me think about something. On LinkedIn, they have these polls that you can do and ask a question and people respond. And one of the questions that I asked several weeks ago was, what is the change that you want to see in your executive team, the change you want to see in your leadership team? And then I offer a few suggestions. And one of them was empathy and compassion. And I believe I don't have the exact percentages in front of me, but it blew everything else out of the water. Even in terms of diversity and inclusion. We could say, well, that's the big initiative that people are trying to do. And also, wouldn't diversity and inclusion happen if we treated people like human beings? If we had more empathy and compassion. I've listened to each of you speak and that's such a core part of your leadership style. Yes, we are changing the face of the Leadership Table right here in this conversation. These are the women who are bringing that empathy and compassion to their leadership and it is so needed and it's not always happening. But yet we have a solution. We have the way forward. And I really appreciate that. This is what I get fired up about. I have a question for you. Another element, in addition to just admiring each of your corporate badassery, is that each of you have been promoted in the time that I have known you, which is awesome. So I'd like to think that I played a part in that promotion and pat myself on the back a little bit here. But also in seeing the growth that you have done, whether it was before you got the promotion, becoming the executive ahead of time, stepping into the role so that you were ready to take on the role. But also what are some of the shifts and changes, maybe even surprises or things that you were already prepared for? Now that you have taken on a different level of leadership role, what are you noticing that you have to do or change that you weren't maybe doing before? Thelma, I'll start with you.

Thelma: I'll say the biggest shift for me and I was working on this prior to Executive Ahead of Time, but it really hit me when we started going through the coursework about getting out of the weeds. And that's something that I really did a lot of work on. And I can say now that I'm completely out of the weeds and when I catch myself doing it, I can quickly notice it and pull myself out because ultimately I trust my team to do the work and I'm always making myself available to work through ideas with them as needed and do weekly check ins and just to ensure we're on track. But I focus my time on removing obstacles for them so they can do their work as well as strategy and building relationships. So I would say that's been a really big shift for me.

Stacy: Huge! I mean, this is so good to have somebody look at me and to say that I am out of the weeds. This is such a big deal. And I love it. Thank you. Thanks for sharing.  Kristi?

Kristi: I'm actually going to build on what Thelma said, because that was a big shift for me, too. And I think part of it is to Andrea's point about for a former executor, it's very hard to trust other people to do stuff that you're used to doing yourself. And one of these benign examples is just relying on an assistant for me has been a shift. It just seemed like, I don't deserve someone to schedule meetings for me or help me find a restaurant reservation. I can do that myself. Well, I can do it myself, but I don't have time to do that myself right now. I need to do the work that I can be impactful with with my skill set. And so that has been a shift for me and just letting that go and letting other people do the parts of the jobs that they're good at. Just because I can do it doesn't mean I have to do it. And so that's that's been a shift for me. It sounds trivial, but it actually frees up a lot of my time to have the strategic thinking time and to to make the connections and do the other things that that are more important for what I need to get done. So that's been a shift for me as well. And I think it's one of the little tiny things about getting out of the weeds.

Stacy: You can start acting like a Vice President. Not that you weren't, but it allows you that headspace to be able to do that. I think one of the tricky things for people when they have shared assistance; when you have this assistant that's not really your assistant, but is a lot of people's assistant. And I'm not sure if this is the case with you, Kristi, but especially if that assistant helps your boss. And so there's this idea that they're not really my assistant and that is not true. That person is there for you and the expectation from leadership is that you would utilize them. They would be disappointed if you didn't. And again, to your point, you're not able to think strategically and it would be confusing to leadership as in, why is she scheduling? This is not her role. So I think that really matters. And we always forget that it's easy to forget it. Use the support around us.

Kristi: It actually goes a little bit to the empathy too, because to your point that that person wants to do her job to the best of her ability, and that's where she shines and that's what she's good at and she wants to be recognized for it. 

Stacy: I love that. That's so good. Alright, Andrea, what do you have to say about this transition?

Andrea: This was an interesting one for me and one that I gave a little bit more thought to, because for me, it's confidence and that's what has been the biggest shift. Moving from a Director to a Vice President, I really had to do the internal work. As silly as that sounds, but I had to dig deep and figure out what my own fears and hang ups were and really recognize what I'm good at and also just acknowledge what I'm not good at. And then do the work. Do the work with the courses and getting out of the weeds and thinking more strategically and having the Ally Meetings. That shift from Director to VP didn't happen overnight. And certainly I can say I've worked harder than I ever worked in my life to make that shift, but it was the confidence that I was really lacking. And once I had put in the work and I had done the internal reflection, I was ready to make that leap. And there were definitely people that had told me earlier in my career, you're not cut out to be a VP or why don't you be a senior? And I was like, I don't want to be a Senior Director first. I want to be a VP. And so for me, it was recognizing where my gaps were and one of the biggest gaps for me was confidence. So that's a tough one because it was a lot of internal work for me.

Stacy: And this the conundrum for the executor's. We can have confidence in our execution, but do we have confidence as a leader?  Do we have confidence to make these bigger decisions? Because usually it's just I'll just put in more hours, I'll take this project across the finish line. My point of view with confidence is that it is not created in our brain, it's created through taking action. And so the way that you described it, it's not like you sit there and say I'm going to get confident and then I'll be VP ready. It doesn't work that way. We don't create confidence that way. I remember you went through the interview process and it was like the action. You have one role and then you started interviewing as a Vice President. So even in the interviews you were building that confidence. Can you speak to the interview process in terms of that confidence building and that action that you took?

Andrea: The interview process. When I started looking for my next role, I really wanted to find the right fit for myself and I was willing to kind of try a little bit of everything. And so I interviewed for a lot of different roles. In fact, at one point I was interviewing with 15 different companies, which sounds crazy, but I really needed to build that confidence. I needed to find my voice. And I needed to know where I fit. And so I just found that as I got further along in interviews and as I did more of them, that confidence grew. But interestingly enough, in the end, for me, the more confident I grew, the more I threw out my notes. And I just started speaking from the heart and asking tougher questions. And it was because I really didn't need my notes anymore. I didn't need my script, if you will. I was just speaking from the heart. And that's where the true confidence came in. I knew I was ready when I could speak from the heart and I didn't need my notes anymore and I didn't need my prep. I was just ready.

Stacy: Yes. Yes, you were. I love it. Yes. Kristi, what do you have to add?

Kristi: I was just I'm thinking about what Andrea is saying about building confidence. And I have a feeling some in the audience might be thinking, well, how how do I do that if I don't want to do 15 interviews? I feel like over the years, my confidence was really built by decision making. So when you're coming up in the ranks, there's always someone above you that's like, oh, well, I'm not the final decision maker so I don't have to take ownership of this. And then you don't have the chance to build the confidence of seeing what happens when you make a decision. It's really scary making certain decisions, small to big ones. But when you are where the buck stops that decision you're responsible for, good or bad. You really think about it, but you have to own it, right? And that that's where a lot of the confidence comes in from my experience. And I was able to build that experience. I was involved in an organization called Women in Bio, which is sort of an adjunct volunteer organization that supports my industry. And volunteering in that organization was where I got the chance.

Stacy: I'm going to pause for just a second. So she wasn't involved with this organization. What did you do?

Kristi: Well, I was President of the organization. That is actually relevant in the chance that that was a way that I got to practice decision making. I was the President. I was the one that had to finally approve and/or make the decisions. But I could do it in this atmosphere that was very supportive and also wasn't going to derail my career necessarily if I made a bad choice. It was a great way of of learning that confidence. And I feel like if anyone can find ways, either through their job or through volunteering or through interviewing or find a way to practice making decisions that you have ownership of. I feel like that's a really big way of building your confidence because the more decisions you make that really turn out well, then it just happens naturally that your confidence builds.

Stacy: This is so good. I want to hear from everybody. Thelma, how have you developed and grown your confidence? I love this conversation.

Thelma: I would say that's probably something that I've had since I was a kid. But I'll say that in regard to making decisions with confidence, I kind of look at it as what's the worst thing that can happen? Most things are fixable. And that's what everybody needs to know. You know what? Go ahead, think about it. Make a thoughtful decision. If it's the wrong decision, then it's something you learn from. It doesn't define you. If it's not the right decision, hopefully it's something that you can learn from. And then if you just continually do that, you'll become more and more confident in your abilities.

Stacy: I love that. And I remember when you took this new role that you you had, there was a different level of confidence. Moving into this role and Change Management, would you be willing to speak to any of that?

Thelma: Well, I have no formal education in Change Management, but I ran a $100 million operation and had hundreds of employees. I've been in sales and care. I felt like if I could do all that stuff, have people's livelihoods and their lives in my hands I can figure out how to do this too. And have people around me who have done that for a number of years or that's their expertise and be okay with it. Just because you're the leader doesn't mean that you have to know everything. So I think that's been a really good part of my success, I would say.

Stacy: And the willingness to grow in your confidence and to let other people step up; it's just huge. I admire it so much.

Thelma: I would say that I'm very open about what I know and what I don't know. I don't sit back and say I don't know this, so I need to act like I know it. I'm just very open. This is not my area of expertise. What are your thoughts? How can we do this, things like that. Having that vulnerability has helped a lot as well.

Kristi: I feel like that's a really important point, especially for women to get over that hump of I need to know everything before I can move to the next level. I haven't mastered this yet. I can't. I'm not promotable.  I think that's a really important point. I hear that a lot from friends of mine, and it's really hard to overcome. For some people, it's what Andrea mentioned about having that vulnerability and overcoming that, it is a real fear of being in front of a group of people and saying, I don't know.

Stacy: And then you do it a couple of times and you realize, oh, it's not so bad. And not only that, it's better, right? It's that human centric approach. I don't have to do it all. So I'm really curious from each of you; you're very three dimensional women. You are leaders at your organization and you also care about your industries, the world, women. You have other passions, legacy, so on and so forth. Thought leadership. I'd like to hear from you why you personally feel motivated to not just have that seat at the table, but that voice to really make a difference, to make the changes that you want to see in leadership, whether at your organization or elsewhere. Andrea, let's start with you.

Andrea: I guess I want to have a seat at The Leadership Table because I deserve a seat. Because why shouldn't I have a seat? Really? And I think my having a seat inspires other women to want to have a seat or at least to speak up and have a voice. And I certainly think of my two young girls, and I want them to be confident in themselves and wanting to have a seat at The Leadership Table as well. And that doesn't need to be in a formal business setting, that can be in any form. It's just the willingness to stand up and to advocate for yourself and for your team and for others, and to feel deserving of having a voice in a seat at whatever table it is that you're at.

Stacy: And in terms of customer success and the work that you care about and how you see customer success growing, what do you feel is your mission, what you care about in that industry?

Andrea: I've always felt really passionately about customers and making sure that they are having a great experience. I did sales for a while. I've also done marketing. I'm really drawn to other people, but more so just their experience with a product or a platform. I always want that to be positive. I can think of so many examples of bad customer service that I've had and it makes such a difference. And even when you're unhappy with a company or a platform or a product, it's how that company responds and how they listen or don't listen that makes all the difference. And so I've always been really passionate about the customer experience overall.

Stacy: I love that you bring the humanity. The person. It's not just about the numbers, but then of course, when you bring the humanity back in, the numbers go up, right? It goes full circle. So I love that. Thelma, why do you feel motivated to have a voice at the table?

Thelma: I'm motivated to have a voice at the table to share my ideas from what could be a unique perspective. A lot of companies and corporate America, you don't see a person that looks like me. And then on top of it, to be a woman, I think it's important to show other people within your organization and outside and of course, children as well, that they can achieve things that maybe not everyone is done, but they can do it if it's something that they want to do. And I just think it's really important to have people at the table that can offer diverse opinions and outlooks on things because you may find something there that could be the best solution. But you didn't think of it because that's not something that you're accustomed to. You're accustomed to doing things one way. And it always worked. But then if somebody brings up a different idea, you could be light years ahead of your your competitors by letting other people come in into those meaningful conversations as you're making decisions. So that's a big part of the reason why I want to be at the table.

Stacy: I love this. Kristi?

Kristi:  I think I want to build on this almost like a diversity issue, but in a different way. Being in science, a lot of science is very traditional in the sense of this is how we do things. And I think of my career path as having been a little bit squiggly. I've actually had the opportunity to see how things are done in various different places. Even though I feel like the more traditional career path is more revered, I think I actually bring a lot to the table because I have been in different companies. I did some consulting. I've seen different things. And so gene therapy is relatively new to me in my career, but I can apply what I've learned in different modalities in biotech very easily. So I feel like I came in with this outsider's viewpoint and I'm doing air quotes, which actually allowed me to really assess the situation in a different way than the people who have been there for five, six, ten, 15 years doing it the same way that they were taught. So I feel like I bring that to the table. I think I see our industry opening up a little. We're starting to see CFOs, CBOs, some of the c-suites coming from external industries such as tech or even food products and other industries, and just looking at it as a business and bringing that other viewpoint. So I feel like there always needs to be diversity from a number of different angles, but having a different path to that table is an element of diversity. 

Stacy: So good. I have enjoyed this conversation so much as I'm sure the listeners are as well. As we head out today, first of all, I'm going to link to everybody's LinkedIn profiles in the show notes, and I encourage you to connect with these amazing women and share the information that we're sharing on today's podcast. It's so important. But as we head out today, I would love for you to share any final thoughts for a woman who's growing in her career? She's listening to this episode. She says, Oh, they make it look so easy. If only I could do that. That would be great. If you have any final words of advice for somebody looking to grow their career, trying to figure out what the next steps might be for them. I'd love to send us off with that. Thelma, would you mind going first?

Thelma: I was just sitting here thinking about it as you said it. I would say if it's something that you know you want to do, don't let anything get in your way. If it's education that you need, go get it. If it's more experience, find a way to get it. Connect with other people and just do as much as you can to continue to learn and grow. And you can do just about anything you want to do.

Stacy: Absolutely. I totally agree. Kristi?

Kristi: Well, I'm going to borrow from you, Stacy, in the Executive Ahead of Time theme. I find myself saying this to friends that are coming up in the industry of just pretend you have the role that you want. Just act like that. Emulate the folks that you admire that are in those positions and just be that person and the promotion will come. Don't say oh, I can't do this or I can't act that way because I'm not there yet. I don't have the role. Just pretend you do. 

Stacy: Because then you start making decisions like that executive. Whatever role you're at, you're listening, how do they act differently? How do they communicate differently? I've created a whole business off of this model, so I could talk about this all day long, but I completely agree. And then to Thelma's point, if you need to get the education, if you need to get the skills, if you need to get the mentors or whatever, do it.  Andrea, what advice would you give?

Andrea: I would definitely continue the theme of just believe in yourself. Don't let anything stand in your way. Believe in yourself, but also be willing to put in the work. It is work. I think a lot of times we look at other female leaders or people that we are aspiring to be and we think, oh, they had it so easy. Or they're so lucky. And I can definitely say no. You have to put in the work. And for me a lot of that was the internal work and so really believe in yourself but have that growth mindset to always be learning and to be open.

Stacy: I love it. Well, thank you all again and again and again for being here today. I'm super excited to share your wisdom with my larger audience and I wish you all the best. Bye.